300 Yards with a .17HMR is extremly possible!

On Sunday I finally got started on my long range test of the .17 HMR. The rifle that I used was a Savage 93R17 BTV with a Bushnell 4200 Elite 6-24x40mm Mil-Dot scope. I also had a Burris bi-pod mounted on the front sling swivel. At the last minute I decided to switch scopes from the BSA Sweet 17 to the Bushnell. I wanted to make sure that I had enough elevation and windage adjustments on the scope so that I could push this round past my limits. This rifle has proven over the last two years to be a very accurate weapon and averages right at 0.90 MOA at 100 Yards with just about anything that I have fired through it. I also brought some other gear to the range with me like my Kestrol 4200 NV weather station, a large bean bag to use as a rear support, GPS and Nikon 550 laser range finder as well as my log book so that I could track and repeat all the adjustments that I made. All of the shooting was done from the prone position using a bi-pod and rear bag for support.
Once I arrived at the range I quickly set up a paper target at 50 yards so that I could get the newly attached scope properly zeroed. Luckly this did not take all that long and I only used a total of 10 rounds to get a perfectly centered group. I then moved the same target out to 100 yards to check point of impact. Like ususal the little 17gr V-Maxes had an identical point of impact at 100 yards. Now that my rifle was properly zeroed I retrieved the paper target and placed a 12 inch by 12 inch steel plate that was suspended off a wooden frame at the 200 yard line. I was taking a risk at putting the target that far out right away.
Once I got back to my rifle I updated my log book to show the current temperture, humidity, barometric pressure, altitude, density altitude and wind speed and direction. I then looked at all of the available drop charts that I had for the .17HMR and made a quick adjustment for 200 yards. As I laid behind the rifle simultaneously checking my natural point of aim, concentrating on the trigger pull, stock tension and the sight picture the shot finally broke. Through the scope I got to see the little grey puff of smoke as the round impacted the plate just a little low. I added just a bit of elevation and wind and then settled down to make the next shot. Poof, the grey smoke and the perfect bell like ring of the plate let me know that I had made yet another hit. Looking through the scope I could see the impacts so adjusting was a simple matter of twisting the dial. I fired 5 rounds untill I was perfectly centered on the plate then I fired 5 more to make sure that the POI did not change. After the 10 rounds I was content with my 200 yard zero and I decide that I would push the target to 250 yards. I forgot paint so the target was not "clean" for this stage of shooting. Not a big deal really but it would have been nice to have a new target to shoot at as it would have made spotting the impact that much easier. I went throught the same steps as I did at the 200 yard line. It did take 2 shot to get on target though. After I finally hit the plate it was no problem to center the group. Unfortunatly 250 yards is a very long way for a high speed 17 grain projectile to travel. The wind was a big factor. Even a very slight increase of decrease in the wind speed would send the round into the dirt to the left or right of the target. Perfect wind estimation is a must if you plan on shooting little furry things at this range. The round seemed to still vaporize when it hit the plate but I am not sure that the same thing would happen if you were to replace the steel with flesh. As I neared completion at the 250 yard line the winds were steadly increasing. I really wanted to be able to get data to at least 300 yards so I stopped shooting at the 250 yard line. After a quick trip downrange I had the target at the 300 yard line. This time I used to back of the steel plate as a target so that I would be able to see exactly where the rounds were impacting. The back of the plate was red so actually seeing the impacts through the scope was impossible. I added what I thought would be way to much elevation and then I added a little more right wind. Imediatly following the first shot I noticed through my scope that the round had impacted the right hand target support. If I had not noticed this I am not sure that I would have been able to get on target. Spotting the impact of this little round through 3 ft tall Oklahoma prarie grass was not going to happen. In any case I fired a total of 20 rounds with 10 actually hitting the steel plate. If I did my part it seemed that missing was something the rifle could not do. If, however, I did not pay attention to the wind then it was a miss for sure. Once I got a chance to look at the target I was happy to see very little vertical dispersion (around 2.5"). This told me that I was holding at the same point on the target. But the horizontal dispersion went from one side of the target to the other. Wind ended up being the single biggest hurdel when shooting the .17HMR at extended ranges.
Is it possible to get to 400 yards wtih the .17 HMR? Yes and No! If the atmospheric conditions are favorable, like little to no wind, absolutly not over 8-10 mph then YES is is possible. If the atmospheric conditions are not in your favor then you may get lucky and get a few hits but I highly doubt you will get repeted hits. I am looking forward to shooting at 400 yards with my Savage 93R17 BTV.
In retrospect though I may have to start much closer than the 400 yard goal. Durring the first stage of this test (everything that you have read thus far) I was able to walk the target out and the winds remained constant. So I had very recent wind data to add to the scope. If I would have sat the target out at 300 yards and attampted to hit it with the first shot then I give my self only a 30% chance of getting a first or second round hit. I am sure that at 200 yards getting a first round hit on a rabbit sized animal is very possible though. Most people will never shoot their .17HMR past 200 yards and if they do I am sure that they are just lobbing rounds to see if they hit something. Not to sound snobbish or anything! Just plain old factual information.
I do not know when I will be able to conclude this test. Work, weather and general lack of funds are all simultaneously consorting to make this not happen. But, the next time that I go out I will attempt to start at the 300 yard line if the conditions permit. If I am not able to do this then I may have to slowly push the target to the 400 yard line.
The end state of this test is to provide me with the necessary real life shooting data from 100 to 400 yards in 25 yard increments. All of this data will be condensed into a data card that I will be able to tape to the stock of my rifle. Talk about a deadly crow gun then. CHEERS

I CAN NOT DECIDE

As usual I can not decide what gun to get. So, I am not looking any more. In the next few days I am going to place an order at Midway USA for some reloading tools and a chronograph. This should be about the best use for my case right now. I need the reloading gear so that I can shoot the guns that I do have. The chronograph will just help. So around $175.00 is all that it takes. I am in no hurry to jump into a CETME or any other rifle right now. I will focus instead on upgrading the rifles that I do have. My Savage 10FCP needs a bedding job and I might as well go ahead and get it duracoated. I also need to stock up on some powder for loading .223 and .308 Winchester. It is not all that bad of an idea really. Summer is right around the corner and that means a lot of long range shooting. So i guess finding and loading a good ammount of .308 winchester match ammo should be on top of the list of things to do. Who knows I might even try to make it to a few of the matches at Red Castle this season. CHEERS

Fuck the FAL give me a CETME

After looking around I decided that a FAL is just way to expensive. My SOCOM 16 was very expensive and that kept me from fully enjoying the rifle. I really want a boom stick that I will not worry too much about. So enter the CETME... it is the gun that the H&K G3 was designed after. I have read about how the CETME has poor user controls and that quailty control was not that good on a few of the available models. Well for around $500.00 I can pick up the rifle. Now is where things start to get sweet. Cheaperthandirt.com has magazines for the CETME (G3) for $0.97 up to $2.97. Plus all the reviews about the mags are decent. So I can pick up 20 of them and sort out the best 10. Aftermarket parts are available and cheap. So I can get a fully functional Battle Rifle AND magazines, magazine pouches and a sling for under $600.00. If I decide that this is the route that I will take that is. For an additional $200.00 I can put a full length tri-rail and a quality scope mount on this rifle. For now I feel naked without the firepower provied by my big bore battle buddies

This Fucking Weather

Between work and this damn Oklahoma winter weather I have not had a chance to get out and do any shooting. I have a .17HMR test that I would really like to finish one of these days. Not to mention that since the start of this year I have only fired around 400 rounds. Better start than last year at this time though. I guess to be fair to Mother Nature there have been a few days of sunshine. I was working though or there was just no way I was going to wade though hip deep mud to fire a few rounds. I am, after all, not in the Marines any longer. Looking at the weather forecast for the next week shows more of the same. Snow/freezing rain on Sunday night and through Monday. That will leave Tuesday way to muddy to get any real shooting done. I have to work monday wednesday and friday so that limits the range time a bit. This new schedule is, however, better for the shooting sports that I enjoy so much. Well I just wanted to update this blog. CHEERS

FN-FAL

Been thinking about getting a new gun! When does it stop? Never! Well I mad a huge mistake a while back and traded off my Springfield Armory SOCOM 16 for a tweaked AR-15 and scope. While it is a great shooting rifle it has a very limited role in my shooting sports. The .223 Rem is just not enough to hunt deer with and the rifle is way to long to hunt anything that requires a long walk. The AR-15 is at home firing from the prone at distant small varmits. I have two AR-15 that are set up very diffrently and the long range version is the one that I want to get rid of. What do I want to replace it with? Well that is the question.
I love the power of the .308 Winchester. For me this is the absolute most verstile round here in America. For one it is commonly available. Wolf and other manufactures make cheap steel cased ammo for volume shooting and I handload my long range precision target and hunting ammo. I was not that impressed with my SOCOM 16 and that is why I decided to get rid of the thing in the first palce. But in so doing I created a void in my gun collection that needs to be filled.
The FN-FAL has always been a rifle that has cought my eye. Sleek, powerful, and most importantly it is controlable and accurate. This day and age people want shorter rifles and the standard FN-FAL is by no means short. If I am thinking correctly it is over 41" long. This rifle is probably the most widly issued "Battle Rifle" in the history of modern warfare. Now days though they seem to always fetch high prices. This gun will satisfy my desire to have yet another military rifle that I can hunt with. Weight is not that big of a deal to me when stalking the woods. Accuracy, reliablity, and user interface (grip, safety, charging handle, etc) are more important to me. So I should be able to hunt most North American big game with this boom stick. Now on a tactical side the .308 is a clear winner over the .223. More of everything like range, power, and penetration is never a bad thing. So when you are facing down bad guys armed with the .223 then you can not go wrong with the .308 it just makes sense. So right now I am on the look out for a good used FAL. If you know anyone out there that has one they would be willing to part with then just let me know................CHEERS

Building an AK-47 from a parts kit.

I got bored at work the other night and stumbled onto a video of a guy that was building his very own AK-47. It looked easy enough (how projects have I started thinking that) but the guy was using some specialty jigs and a shop press for the project. After looking into this a little deeper I can get a Romanian Ak-47 parts kit (everything but the reciever) for under $100.00. A 100% complete lower reciever is an FFL item and they run around $100.00 as well. So I figure another $50.00 to cover the things that I am uneducated on and I have a rifle for under $300.00. Not bad.
So why mention this. Well first off the jigs make the finished product look better and they no doubt make the project a little easier. BUT they are not cheap. The most useful jig is $250.00. If I did build one rifle the cost of the jigs makes buying a completed rifle cheaper but if one or two other people pitched in and got kits as well then this would be a great item to have. There are a few other jigs that totaled to around $200.00 that would make the project much easier. But again even building two rifles would not offset the cost of those items.

I may decide to get a kit an a couple of the flat recievers (no FFL dealer required) and give this a go anyhow. If this is something that is fun then the jigs can be bought as needed for future builds. I guess the project itself is intreguing to me. I would love to have an AK but there is just no way that I see spending more than $300.00 for a great one. Imagine have cool it would be to show up at the range with a Krinkov SBR that you built. Or even a regular fixed stock AK-47.

So if there is anyone out there that has the desire for an AK but does not feel like laying down the full price for one maby building your own is the way to go.

Weather

Due to the recent snow storm here in Bartlesville Oklahoma I was unable to use my days off work to get out and actually start this test. Thursday was just way to windy to get any good initial data for the .17HMR Maximum Range test and well Friday it snowed all day long. So I am going to have to postpone this test untill a good day comes along where I am off work and the weather is in my favor. Right now I have to get the rifle/scope zeroed for 100 yards. I may do this prior to heading out to conduct the longer range testing. The Bartlesville Sportsmens Club has a lane that is 185 yards long (it is only open for use once a week) that will probably be used untill my other range dryes out a little.
Right now I only have 130 rounds for this test. I am not 100% sure that the test can be done with such a small ammount of ammunition. I will probably stop by Wal-Mart and pick up at least 100 more rounds so that I will have my bases covered for this test. In any case I will keep my results, or lack of, posted here. CHEERS

Some more on the .17 HMR

Looking at my notes and some ballistics data that I found on Hornadys web site something occured to me. Hitting something at 400 yards with the .17 HMR is like shooting the .223 Rem at 1000 yards. The little round is just so affected by the wind that it might make a snake shaped path to the target depending upon the winds that you are shooting in. I am sure that most people who have claimed hits at 400 yards were not lying but I do also belive that they would be hard pressed to repete what they did on another day.

The picture is a photo snip that I took off of the Hornady Ballistics Calculator. You can clearly see that past 200 yards the little round has to fight for every inch. You can also see that the energy drops to almost nothing at 400 yards. So this reinforces my previous statement that this round should only be used for punching paper at any range past 200 yards. It is the only responsible thing to do.

Now the data in the picture above is only a rough starting point. I have seen this program and others like it be fairly close. The problem is that as range increases so does the error in the ballistic calculator.

I just wanted to add this to my last blog so that you will all have the same ammount of information that I have. CHEERS

Pushing the .17HMR to its limits.

Over the last few weeks I have been doing a lot of research on the little .17HMR (Hornady Magnum Rimfire). I have read many claims of people hitting targets out to and beyond 400 Yards. Keep in mind that the .17HMR uses a 17gr. bullet that leaves the barrel at apporxamately 2550fps. A round that small will loose much if not most of its energy fairly quickly. The round was designed as a small varmint round and in that role it performs flawlesly out to at least 120 yards. Firing the .17HMR out of my Savage 93R17 BTV I have shot 200 yard groups in the 3 inch range. But I have always wondered what the maximum effective range would be for such a small round. I have no doubt that the round will get to 300 yards with a respectable level of accuracy but the 400 yard claim that I have heard and read seem a little far fetched. Elevation adjustments should not be a problem to 400 yards but the windage adjustments are another story all together.

From my personel experiance the wind is this rounds biggest problem. Over the "average" hunting distances (20-100 Yards) this round shoots like a lazer beam but after the 120 to 150 yard mark the wind deffently is a factor that must be considered before launching the shot. I belive this is due to the rounds rapid deceleration and its small size. At this point I have been unable to locate the B.C. of the 17gr Hornady V-Max that seems to be the most common loading. But if I had to guess it would be in the 0.120 area. This factor alone takes this round off the table for long range varmint hunting. Shooting the .17HMR at 200 yards feels like shooting a High Power rifle at 800 yards. You have to really adjust for the wind to get good solid hits. From my personel experiance if the average wind is above 10 mph and gusty then you should keep all your shots inside the 100 yard zone. If you do decide to shoot in higher wind you should wait for the lull.

So now that I have genericaly covered what hundreds of other have I want to get into the bread and butter of this artical. Why would you ever want to shoot such an underpowered round at great distances. For one there is no better way to learn to shoot in the wind than to actually go and shoot in the wind. Many if not most of us have range limitations that do not allow us to stretch out big guns out and get the practice that we need. So shooting a smaller round at closer distances can give us a the practice that we need. I would guess that shooting the .17HMR at 200 yards would be about the same as shooting the .223 at 400 yards and the .308 at 600 yards. So there you have it the biggest reason is triger time, quality trigger time. Also there is the monitary value of this practice. 50 rounds of quality centerfire ammo can run as high as $75.00 while the .17HMR is in the $12-15.00 range. Also when you factor in the drive to a range or shooting area where you can shoot to 600+ yards the gas alone can keep you from making the trip that weekend. Most places here in the midwest have at least a 100 Yard range within an hour of where you live. I have fired many diffrent rifles chambered for the .17HMR and they have all performed beyond my expectations in the accuracy arena. The biggest advantage here is that the rifles are reletivly cheap when you factor in the ammunition cost and the gains you will see in your long range shooting.

So I pose a hypothsis. "Is it possible accuratly and repetably engage targets to 400 yards with the .17HMR?" For this test I will be using a Savage 93R17 BTV with a Bushnell 4200 Elite 6-24x40mm Mil-Dot scope. I have ffound some prelimanry data that suggests that the .17HMR can be used for "target practice" to 400 yards. For me the proof will be in the targets at the end of the test. I will start at the 100 yard line to get a good solid zero and then move further back in 25 yard increments untill I can no longer reliably hit the target. The target will be a 12"x 12" steel plate that is suspened from a carrage that is high enough to get the target above the Oklahoma grass. Behind the steel plate will be a large piece of cardboard for plotting shots that did not hit the plate. So the entire background of the target is almost 3'x3' of target plotting area. I will attempt to shoot only on days where the wind is at least steady. Here in Oklahoma waiting for a nonwindy day is akin to waiting for the second coming of Jesus.

With my test results I will post all applicapable weather conditions (temperature, barometric pressure, altitude, density altitude, wind speed and direction in relation to the shooting position, lighting and direction in relation to the shooter, humidity), shooting position used and any supports used, scope adjustments in both 1/4 MOA clicks and MOA for both windage and elevation, my general feeling for the day (good day, bad day, etc)

For this to be a good test the results must be repetable at least in the same general weather conditions that they were gathered in. The only way to get repetable results is through keeping a shooting log and recording the proper information. I will share all the applicable info. This weekend I plan on at least getting this started. CHEERS